grivel tech machine vs dark machine

Instead of featuring distracting ads or creating a paywall to monetize our site, Weigh My Rack LLC links to relevent products via affiliate marketing (if you click a link and then buy, we get a commission). The pick tapers from a thick 5mm down to a hair-thin 2.7mm at the tip (one of the thinnest on the market). Follow along on Instagram @kirkw.turner. Weight is a mere 480-grams and theyll go for $450 USD. When Im teaching someone how to ice climb, this is the tool to put in their hands. The new Dart adds some much-needed security points between the third and fourth points, as well as smaller points underfoot for added security when standing on mushrooms or other ice features. With a similar head-forward balance I think theyll swing quite well, as long as the ice is very steep or featured. Support WMR: Click before you buy at REI and Backcountry. At the apex of your swing, the tool feels head-heavy, as though it wants to swing back like a pendulumalmost as if it has pick weights, though it doesnt. Our business address is: Bref pas trs srieux tout a. Comment document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "aaddc9f50b3ec70f9ebe26102bfce966" );document.getElementById("d6e3358e87").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Here then, are out Standout Products for the FW19 season (most will be available around September 2019). I had a chance to take a few laps on the aluminum version (Tech Machine) which was very similar, however with the Carbon version I felt fewer vibrations on any given swing, as the carbon felt just a little more damp. We used the ice pick, which comes with the tool. #StopAAPIhate. The clip-in point at the head has plenty of room. One of the first things we noticed was how well balanced they are. Inside, the Verglas is filled with 750-fp hydrophobic down 130-grams in a Mens Large and 120-grams in a Womens 12 (so, Large?) La poigne a t modifi pour tre plus durable. Perso, jaime assez la poigne, qui pour moi est plutt confort. Un des miens qui a pris du jeu trs rapidement, a t rpar avec de la colle apparemment (???) Pour ma part, jai des tech machine depuis quelque mois. Pour le reste, cest vraiment sympa et trs proche dun Nomic avec une poigne plus agrable. 7oz) . Get access to more than 30 brands, premium video, exclusive content, events, mapping, and more. Carbon fiber is used extensively for its unparalleled strength to weight ratio, stiffness, and vibration dampening characteristics. The clip-in point at the base is big enough for a locking carabiner. Jai pas eu le choix que de les utiliser avec des sous-gants et mme l ctait encore un peu serr The ice pick has a long front tooth thats easy to clean, and teeth on top for steinpulls. Je ne roule pas pour Grivel, mais je nai pas eu les problmes de Ozz (enfin pas encore ). I spent many years swinging Black Diamond Cobras which are a great all around tool, but they are not ideal as the angle steepens. Dommage, car pour le reste ils taient trs bien. Add any text here or remove it. I climb ice, rock, trees, buildings, whatever: it's all fun! The weight profile and handle shape are similar to the Petzl Nomic, without pick weights. Both the Mixed and the Ice Plus blades have attachment points for both a micro hammer and an adze. It clips perfectly on an ice clipper. The lower handle adjusts to three sizes with an Allen key. The Alpinist Tech ships stock with anti-balling plates but these, of course, can be removed for additional weight savings. Le jeu qui est apparu dans lembotement de la tte du piolet au bout de quelques jours dutilisation est un signe intressant en ce qui concerne la qualit du matriel. Achte les nomics fabriquer en France ou pas se nest pas un souci. En tout cas, les Quarks sont fabriqus en France, a doit tre pareil pour les Nomics. Je ne me prononcerai pas, dsol :rolleyes: Le manche est forg chaud de type T. Il comprend la lame ICE de 3 mm acre et profile pour bien pntrer dans la glace mince. Kirk Turner built an affinity for endurance sports as a former professional cyclist, however he now enjoys pursuing a more broad range of outdoor activities. The aluminum shaft is very rigid vertically, but has some flex on mixed horizontal. Annual subscription to Climbing magazine. Pour tre le premier inform de nos promotions. The one-piece aluminum handle is fully rubber coated for optimal grip and control. The Dark Machine is ice climbing oriented, with angles that look similar to other current generation technical ice tools. *Outside memberships are billed annually. The tool bridges the gap between the popular Nomic and its predecessor, the Ergo, offering more utility than ever as a specialist tool, made for everything from steep ice to overhanging dry tooling and mixed climbs. Mais la fiabilit est prpondrante pour moi, et il est clair que je ne ferais pas confiance leurs nouveaux modles. The full-carbon handle has small grip spikes on the bottom pommel, however there is no clip-in point to be found. The upper boot now has more insulating layers, as well: theres some Primaloft Silver in the lining, Primaloft 100 and Micropile in the shell and theres a new HDry waterproof membrane that is direct-laminated to the outer boot. A fantastic all-around tool. Je voulais voir sil y avait des avis, comparaisons, expriences bref si cest du bon. Grivel is pushing the modular head envelope even further than Black Diamond or Petzl (until Petzls 2018/2019 season updates) on their entire Machine line as they offer the Ice Blade, Mixed Blade, and Ice Plus Blades. Soyez le premier partager vos commentaires sur ce produit ! Do you by any chance know if Petzl plants to release them also as the hybrid version (with Alu heel and cords) straight out of the box. Ive never had an issue with the lace-lock on my Phantom Techs. In 1860, the adze was rotated horizontally. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. Additionally, the upper torso and arms have stitch-free overlays for added weather-proofing. Since then, all types of ice tools have been designed for different styles of climbing: mountaineering, alpine, glacier, waterfall ice, mixed and dry. The easily clippable spike is nice to clip for overhead protection when placing screws. Unfortunately it wont show up (initially, anyway) in the light green colour shown above but rather in the grey-ish Robotica of the current 20 and 35 packs. The Terrordactyl was a short, all-metal ice tool with an aluminum alloy shaft and a high-quality pressed steel head i with an adze and steeply inclined serrated pick. Impressive that Petzl is selling enough of everything to justify all their shades of grey crampons. More Details. Yep, love the Boa system even though I find that it also slips a bit. Upon cancellation, you will have access to your membership through the end of your paid year. The aluminum reduces weight and the carbon adds damping. Est-ce que tu sais comment faire la diffrence entre ancienne et nouvelle poigne ? Par contre la poigne est vraiment trop petite ! I hope we see more of it in the future. Its not ideal for steep mixed routes due to its curvature, so avoid routes that overhang more than 30-degrees. Retail prices for the US and Canada are also not set yet, but the new Dart will go for 220-Euros. The grip offset from the arc is even more substantial than the Petzl Nomic or Black Diamond Fuel, yet a hair less severe when compared to the Cassin (CAMP) X-Dream. Pour une pioche qui vient de sortir je trouve a plus que louche. The coolest of them all has to be the Verglas, which uses Gores Infinium Persistent Beading Technology (look up Gore Shakedry on YouTube all this stuff keeps getting re-branded, but its more or less the same idea just without the taped seams). merci pour ton retour. I have not had a chance to try out the hammer or adze system yet, but I am looking forward to it. I typically ask gear questions on other forums/places, but Im feeling inclined to knowing what I know about the patrons of these forums. The arced shaft and offset handle really helps with hand clearance. The outsole is an evolution of the current Vibram Zero Gravity in terms of tread design but it loses the ultra-light insert in favour of a more typical highly-durable all-rubber Precision Tech Roll sole in Vibrams proven Mont compound (this is the same rubber compound as found on the Mont Blanc Pro, which seems to last forever in my experience). Livraison sans tracas en EU! Fred Beckey and the Improbable Ascent of Mount Waddington. I once saw an Instagram photo where a large-handed individual took a dremel grinding tool to make more hand space on the handle NOT a good idea! If you are a Nomic devotee, you will need to reduce your flick at the end just a little, but it is a minor change. If you are rough on gear carbon does scratch easier than aluminum, so this could be a con. Currently settling on the Petzl family). In any case, I cant wait to get a pair on my feet! Every time you buy something after clicking on links in our gear articles youre helping support our magazine. When I first saw it I was afraid it might signal the return of the split-zipper syndrome we saw with the Phantom Guides but after putting the boot on I dont think this new, much smaller, zipper is anything to worry about. The Switch is a hefty tool, but with no discernible flex whatsoever, it feels absolutely indestructible. You may cancel your membership at anytime, but no refunds will be issued for payments already made. You must be logged in to reply to this topic. bises a dubidub, Salut, For climbers who use the Nomic and would like a more advanced and versatile tool, the transition to the Ergonomic will feel easy. The aggressive grip largely prevents the handle from going into the snow easily. Upon cancellation, you will have access to your membership through the end of your paid year. I see the tech and an 8000m version on their website but no 6000m. The technique at the time was to hang on to ice pitons, driven into the ice above the leaders head, which was both dangerous and insecure. In 1970, he invented the Terrordactyl or Terror, which had a global impact on hard winter climbing, and helped lead to an ice climbing revolution in the 1970s and 80s. Je trouve la frappe trs bonne et lecncrage excellent. Audacity. The pick angle is aggressive and similar to the Nomic, and its chisel shape. The offset helps more on featured, technical and bulbous ice. Weight is claimed to be 1334-grams in a size Regular, with a stripped weight of 960-grams. I was leaning towards the North Machine, but havent never climbed on them I was a little reticent to pull the trigger. Hell yes I want gear news in my inbox (as a monthly newsletter)! Still the sweetest swinging tool Ive used (Im picky so Ive owned about 7 pairs of tools over the last 8 years. Dailleurs elle a t implant sur tous les piolets Grivel. et Grivel ne me rpond pas pour mexpliquer leur bidouille. Grivel have basically taken the upper shaft from The Tech Machine Carbon and affixed hollow, full-carbon, handles. The Dry mode reduces pick shift when alternating between upper and lower pommels, while Ice mode swings better in vertical or slightly overhung terrain. For me the Ice Pick felt stable while hooking on overhanging terrain and also penetrated all kinds of ice well, while still maintaining the ability to clean without expending additional energy. Les points fort :la poigne ergonomique rglable,les lames dry et glace robuste que tu trouve de partout,la possibilit de mettre marteau et panne,la solidit,le sav petzl au top. Petzls new-for-2018 Ergonomic raised the standard for winter mixed/ice tool design. Im looking for a new pair of ice tools and would be interested to hear people thoughts on the Grivel Tech and North Machines. http://vosgesattitude.canalblog.com/archives/2016/10/16/31667303.html, Pour rsumer : a marche bien, mais il ne faut pas trop se pendre dessus, cest fragile ! Le mien ne lavait pas. I took a few newbies out for some basic top roping and had a variety of tools on hand and by the end of the day they had all gravitated to the Tech Machine Carbon. I agree, looking forward to properly testing out Aerogel and the new Techs! The Raptor excels on WI4 and WI5 climbs. You are best saving these aggressive tools for high-end ice and mixed climbing. Additionally the carbon does scratch when in contact with rocks. Et sincrement avec mes lames ice bien affte, jai pas plus cass quavec des nomics. Fast forward to the beginning of the 20th century, when picks lengthened to about twice the length of the adze. We found that despite its lightness, it was easy to sink into brittle ice in frigid temps thanks to its toughness and durability. aerogel has been in TNF boots for several years and could be a factor in them feeling warmer than any others ive tried tho the primaloft inners would be a big part of that too. A ma connaissance cetait des lames Ice car le piolet etait pratiquement neuf et donc dorigine. I had a former habit of bashing my lower knuckles on occasion, but thankfully that is much less common now. During the course of testing these tools, and sharing with friends, I know of two climbers who took these for a lap eight+ laps, and they have since bought a pair. For pure ice climbing, definitely the North Machine. Vous savez o est fabriqu le nomic ? You wont find elitist or gatekeeping writing here, we welcome all climbers. I dont know right now, but Ill post and add any new information as I receive it. The stock tool doesnt have pick weights or head accessories but the balance is far up the shaft towards the head, and the tool feels like it wants to swing into ice all by itself. The Dark Machines shaft is a carbon-aluminum composite while the handle is full carbon fiber. If I planned to do a significant amount of dry tooling, the standard Tech Machines are likely a better choice. The current Phantom Tech is already one of the lightest single-gaitered boots on the market but for Fall/Winter 2019 it will somehow manage to lose another 100-grams! If only Grivel can figure make a length adjustable handle for the large handed folks, everybody could be satisfied. Downside I found on my G5s is that they are not waterprooof and in melting glaciers that became an issue. Strip the weights and they become one of the most advanced drytooling tools out there. Enter the new Dart. Explore our new expert-led online courses. Dommage car quand ils sortent des bons modles, ils savent faire du bon matos. At 490 grams, it is among the lightest technical tools on the marketfor comparison, the Petzl Nomic and the Black Diamond Cobra are each around 580 grams. Sign in to get an e-mail when this product comes back in stock. There are so many changes within the boot that its hard to even call it a Phantom Tech: everything from the sole up seems to have changed so lets look at it all from the ground up. In a complete turn-around from the above crampon, Cassin have taken their modular Blade Runner platform and turned it into the fixed-point, lightweight, Alpinist Tech. Doit on y voir une rparation de fortune suite a un dfaut massif sur la gamme 2016 ? Tread depth doesnt look to be quite as deep as on the Mont Blanc Pro, but I would expect these gaitered boots to see much less scree and mud use than their all-mountain leather cousins. These tools blew way everyone who stopped by Grivel: they are unbelievably light!! The new boot feels like it fits a bit wider than the current Phantom Tech: I am in favour of this as the boot feels incredibly comfortable on my feet (even though the sample-size EU 42 is much smaller than my typical 43.5 sizing) however Veronicas narrower feet werent as happy with the added room (shes typically a 41 so was a bit loose in the 42s we got to try on). La forme du piolet facilite le crochetage sur la glace et sur la roche. En fait il y a une promo de fou au VC, 120 le piolet. En tous cas ca aura t mes derniers piolets Grivel, marre de lhumour italien :lol: Jai pu les tester ce week-end. Je sais pas si cest cause de mes mains de charpentier mais ctait insupportable avec des gants. Even as other companies upgrade their tools for the 2018/2019 season, the Tech Machine Carbon will still give them a run for their money. Its a natural, well balanced, swing. If youre diligent about sharpening and only take off the thinnest shavings of metal, these picks should last a long time. Although hammering in a piton is difficult with such a curved shaft, the hammer is useful when tapping tools into thin ice or resetting in-situ piton placements. Je pense en France, comme toute la ferraille de Petzl. Reviewing the TX2: Wearing Down La Sportiva Approach Shoes, Approach Shoes for Small Feet and Big Feet, Neon Speedrack Gear Sling The Organizer You Never Knew You Needed, Review: Yates Speed vs Yates Bigwall ladders, Review: The Worst Hand-Tied Aiders on the Market, How to Recycle and Upcycle Used Carabiners. Price is set to be $250 USD. The new Scarpa Phantom looks like another home run, although it might be disingenuous to call it a Phantom at all at this point! Enjoy! Im stoked! Pingback: OR Jan 2019: Climbing Gear The Alpine Start, Pingback: OR Jan 2019: Footwear The Alpine Start. Pingback: OR Jan 2019: Apparel The Alpine Start, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Mountain Hardwear Alpine Light 35 & 50 old vs new, OR Jan 2019: Climbing Gear The Alpine Start. La nouvelle poigne est aussi fragile que lancienne, ou presque. Donc essaye les avec des gros gants en magasin avant de les acheter. When we write specific place names we will give a land acknowledgement. Privacy Policy | Terms & Conditions | Cookies | Comment Policy | Site Map, Grivel Tech Machine Carbon Ice Tools: First Hand Review. I cant say much about the tech machine, even with thin gloves on I can barely get my hand in that handle. [quote=Plov, id: 1811531, post:12, topic:159685]Bon je vais attendre lhiver prochain, peut-tre que dici l ils les auront amlior, on verra. You may cancel your membership at anytime, but no refunds will be issued for payments already made. I have climbed on the Tech Machines before and I really liked them, especially the handle which you can really lean back into. I spent my time with the ice pick that tapers from 5mm at the head down to 2.7mm at the tip. I primarily climb/lead moderate water ice, up to WI4+, in the North East (ADK) with little to no mixed climbing, other than the occasional move or step. The heads modular system makes it easy to use interchangeable blades and accessories: naked, mini-hammer, hammer and adze. The removable hammer is included with the tools and can be stripped off to minimize weight for dry-tooling. Daccord avec ozz sur le cot bricolage des corrections de grivel et leur SAV bien mauvais. For me the biggest and most important change, however, is the somewhat splayed-out inside tertiary point I climb on another brands mono-point crampon solely because it has this aggressive point but it looks like Petzl have taken a cue from their own D-Lynxs ultra-aggressive design and adapted it for all-around ice and mixed climbing use. To avoid assumptions well ask to share gender pronouns. email: support@epictv.com, Company information: Banana Fingers T/A (trading as) EpicTV, Unit 8 Whitehall Trading Estate, Gerrish Avenue, Bristol BS5 9DF, United KingdomVAT GB930689110. In 1786, Jacques Balmat and Michel-Gabriel Paccard made the first ascent of Mont Blanc using an alpenstock and small axe. Looks like Scarpa retained the 1-day use lace-pull on the Phantom Tech hopefully they at least put some locking laces on it this time. Je sais que la qualit des lames Grivel est top mais quen est-il de la poigne ? Climber, photographer, Scotch aficionado. As an Industrial Designer, my first thought was: Why does Grivel paint the back quarter of the shaft yellow?! Weight for a Mens Large is claimed to be 470-grams, while the Womens 12 (aka Large) comes in at 430-grams. Par contre leur lames sont trop epaisse ce qui fait que ces pioches explosent la glace tres tres facilement. Porte porte. Its angled double grip has a contoured pinky rest that lets you hang without tiring yourself, and the handles design gives maximum surface area for your glove. The serrated stainless-steel spike on the bottom of the tool has a connection point that is compatible with most tether systems. SUBSCRIBE TO THE UPHILL ATHLETE NEWSLETTER. The 55 will have all the usual features youd expect of a modern Arcteryx pack: removable top lid with two zippered pockets, removable framesheet and back panel, secure ice tool carry, dual side-lash straps and low-profile hipbelt. Grivel The Dark Machine and The Dark Machine X. The handle is all carbon, while the shaft is aluminum wrapped in carbon. Grivel may not be the first to make carbon tools (ie, Black Diamond Cobras), butGrivel is the first to produce carbon tools that have an aggressive modern tool shape for leash-less technical climbing. Any idea if they are going to make a 6000m version of the new Phantom? The Switch boasts a hot-forged handle with full-strength pommels and an integrated full-strength clip-in point. They cost a bit more up front but will need to be tuned less and sharpened much less. I like the look of the new Darts. Juste pour une longueur donc pas davis sur le long terme. An integrated steel spike at the bottom that can accommodate a spinner leash or full size carabiners should you get in a bind and need to clip off to a draw on your harness belay loop. The anti-balling plates are Petzls semi-rigid design and can be easily removed for additional weight reduction. Grivel uses much better steel than any of their competitors use. You can also choose between different blade technologies, such as hot forged and laser cut. For pure ice and light mixed duty these tools just feel right. Ils ont t modifis ensuite sur les nouvelles sries. They are easy to swing on low angle and they excel on steep ice, especially WI4-5s. The Cassin X-Dreams are high functioning, modular tools. Dollars speak volumes and many a dirtbag climber has delayed shelling out their cold hard cash until highly motivated and these tools made the cut. En continuant naviguer sur ce site, vous confirmez votre accord. The Dark Machine has a small spike integrated into the bottom of the carbon handle (looks to be same size as the current Tech Machine tools), however neither the handle nor the spike are adjustable or removable. The picks are, as with all Grivel steel, made from the very best steel. The handle is thinner and more narrow than similar tools, which benefits smaller hands. Create a personalized feed and bookmark your favorites. The multi-material handle is grippy, but not overly so. @luv2sharpen and @steve, thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate it. Non non, cest bien la version 2 qui est (tait ) sold. EPICTV, the EPICTV logo and all other EPICTV marks are trademarks of Elisa Oyj. This is reflected in the price and in the value. Voil moi je suis plutt positif, mais jai pas mal de produits Grivel et je suis assez satisfait dans lensemble. The new tools come 20 grams lighter, despite the added hammer and stainless-steel spike to the bottom. TOUTES LES BONNES AFFAIRES, JUSQU' - 60%. Jai le souvenir de poignes de piolets cascade sur des vieux Grivel qui mexposaient la main. It swings similar to the Petzl Nomic and feels about the same weight. The shape of the tool and wider handle makes holding them anywhere along the shaft comfortable. Broke lace locks in-store on the current Tech, and unfortunately laces just dont lock. We have opted to use affiliate links in our gear reviews. If it is, it sounds like a complete game-changer! Wait so is this new Petzl crampon making Lynx going away? bonne grimpe Theres also a new zipper which is very supple, thanks mostly to the much smaller teeth as compared to other boot zippers. I think they should have let the beautiful carbon show, but such is life, and this does not affect the climbing at all. Eventually, the accepted worldwide design for modern ice tools evolved as a combination with the pick steeply dropped like the Terror but curved upwards at the tip like a reversed Chouinard Climaxe hammer, which was known as the Banana pick. The Grivel Dark Machine performs well on mixed terrainwith a similar curve to that of the Petzl Nomic, it can handle a wide variety of ice and rock of varying steepnessbut if youre planning on mainly tackling dry-tooling routes, opt for the Dark Machine X, which has an even more recessed handle. Par contre en dry cest moins bon quun Ergo, pour avoir test les deux dans les mmes longueurs, mais pour mon niveau (D6), pour linstant a va trs bien. Do inquire for a current shipping address. Its extremely lightweight thanks to the G-bone carbon composite shaft and full carbon handle. I would not hesitate to grab them for longer mixed objectives with lots of ice. Since most climbers these days customize their tool handles by wrapping them with electrical tape or some other grippy material, Grivel thought that they might as well provide a blank canvas, which means you have to tape the handle. The rock pick is angled more for drytooling and can accept an adze or hammer. The X-Dream is similar weight, but I felt it needs even more swing speed to feel similarly as sold as the Tech Machine Carbon. Viewing 3 replies - 1 through 3 (of 3 total). This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Ive climbed on both pretty extensively. In love with ice, mixed, alpine and drytooling, though I do enjoy the warmer days on rock, too. I used to climb on the quantum techs, which are the same shaft as the north machine. The Nomic continues to be one of the most best workhorse tools on the market. I removed it on my 6000s as I find I get a better lock just wrapping the laces its all about playing around and finding what works for you. Were often mobile. The North Machine fills the alpine space much better with its straighter shaft and grip which is more ideal for plunging on traverses, anchors and steep snow. The non-adjustable grip features an interesting mix of rubber, hard plastic and steel. Comme lhiver revient rapidement, voici un petit article (plutt mitig) sur ces fameux Tech Machine : The balance, without the pick weight, is high, which helps the 490-gram tool penetrate ice. Would be bloody expensive to buy them for $220 and $120 extra for the hybrid adapter set (heel and cord) which will also get released. Light, mean and versatile, the Dark Machine is Grivels newest tool in their Machine linewhich also includes the Tech Machine, North Machine and Light Machineand it is the most technical ice tool of the bunch. The Nomics have so much weight in the head, swinging just felt unnatural for me. Print subscriptions available to U.S. residents only. The new Nomic excels on vertical ice, where the included PurIce sinks into funky features and removes with ease thanks to the 3mm tapered steel point. Bref je ne pourrais recommander ces piolets quaux gens trs lgers qui ne grimpent pas souvent et qui ne font pas de dry. I spent time on friends Petzl Nomics (pre-2018) with pick weights, but never quite felt at home with them. The nicely curved shaft provides clearance for hooking over bulges without the knuckle bashing. Weight is 405-grams per crampon, though this is without the anti-ball plates installed. I do love my Irvis hybrids and Lynx (although heavy) , and interested to see the cord-tec Dart hybrid setup. There are two zippered hand-pockets and a zippered internal chest pocket, however. This allows Grivel to taper, fine tune and lighten or add weight more intentionally, which results in well-crafted picks.

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